On a day Bihar Chief Minister and JD(U) supremo Nitish Kumar snapped his ties with the Mahagathbandhan (grand alliance) and rejoined the BJP-led NDA, JD(U) national spokesperson and political advisor K C Tyagi speaks to The Indian Express on a range of issues related to Nitish’s move and its ramifications for the Opposition INDIA bloc. Excerpts:

Why has Nitish Kumar walked out of the INDIA bloc and rejoined the NDA?

The attitude of the Congress from day one had not been very positive. We came out of the NDA with 16 MPs in 2022, not to gain anything but to contribute. At that time there was no positive mention of the Congress anywhere in the country and talks about a Third Front were on with (West Bengal CM) Mamataji, (Delhi CM Arvind) Kejriwal, (BRS chief) K Chandrasekhar Rao and (SP chief) Akhilesh Yadav as the “sutradhars” (anchors). In September 2022, a large number of Opposition leaders had gathered in Hisar to mark Chaudhary Devi Lal’s birth anniversary. It was here Kumar demolished all talks of a Third Front, saying there can be no Front without the Congress. This increased the acceptability of the Congress, a phenomenon which was visible in (the Opposition meeting at) Patna.

Kumar made the impossible possible. Leaders like Kejriwal, Mamata and Akhilesh shared the stage with Rahul Gandhi. This was not possible otherwise. This was our contribution. He (Kumar) then went to meet Sonia Gandhi with Lalu Prasad and asked her to take the lead. However, nothing happened for the next four months. Nitish came back to Delhi, persuaded everyone and took them to Patna for the first meeting of the Opposition.

The chances of fielding one common candidate against the BJP in 400-odd seats and a tough fight were bright after the Opposition meetings in Bengaluru and Mumbai. The Congress then let the momentum slip and no meeting was called for the next three months. Nitish and Akhilesh repeatedly questioned about the delay in seat-sharing. The Congress said there would be no seat-sharing in Haryana, Himachal Pradesh, Uttarakhand, Rajasthan, Madhya Pradesh, Chhattisgarh, Telangana and Karnataka… They will let the BJP win all seats but will not give us any but want seats disproportionate to their strength in Bihar, UP, Maharashtra, West Bengal and Tamil Nadu. They want 15 seats in UP, 10 in Bihar, 20 in Maharashtra, 8 in Bengal…. They wanted to finish all of us non-Congress parties as part of a conspiracy.

They (Congress) also wanted to hijack the leadership of the INDIA bloc. It was decided in Mumbai that the alliance will not project a face. But when the meeting took place in Delhi on December 19. What was the scene? Mamata Banerjee met Kejriwal over tea a day before, addressed a joint press conference and said no leader will be projected. But through some intrigue and manipulation in the night… Jairam Ramesh and co ensured Mallikarjun Kharge’s name was proposed at the meeting. Kejriwal supported the proposal. What was the need for such intrigue and manipulation? Although Kharge politely refused, it was the Congress’s conspiracy to hijack leadership (of the bloc). The alliance was not taking off and on the other hand, the BJP was holding booth-level conventions. The Congress is taking out a padayatra, inviting tall leaders who are twice the age of Rahul Gandhi just for formality as guest artists and for them to accept its leadership. So our frustration and disillusionment with the INDIA bloc resulted in this (walking out).

Your larger objective was to defeat the BJP. If you were frustrated with the INDIA bloc, you could have come out, spoken to other leaders and formed a separate bloc.

Slowly everyone will come out. I am telling you today that there will be no alliance between the Congress and Mamata Banerjee (in Bengal), Samajwadi Party (in Uttar Pradesh)… Not even in Tamil Nadu (with the DMK). We have been in the NDA before. In 2014, we got only two Lok Sabha seats but the BJP conceded 17 seats in 2019, of which five or six were where they had sitting MPs. The BJP is more moderate than the Congress in working style. We have ideological differences with the BJP – be it on Article 370 or Uniform Civil Code– which we will not compromise on. Even on Ram Mandir, we had said the court will decide. We never compromised on it even while being a part of the NDA.

That is alright. You are saying the INDIA bloc is not able to fight the BJP and hence we are leaving it to join the NDA. How is it a convincing argument?

That is a local arrangement in Bihar. We have gone with the RJD too… and remained uncomfortable. But there is nothing uncomfortable in working with the BJP. There were ideological differences on a couple of issues but we were not uncomfortable working with the BJP.

You are saying that the INDIA alliance will break and some more parties which are not comfortable with the Congress will come out. Is it possible that Nitish will rally those parties?

No it is not possible now. We have maintained contacts with the SP, NCP… many parties. All of them are unhappy. The question today before the Congress is of survival…. They didn’t have the numbers to claim the post of the Leader of the Opposition (LoP) twice… Instead of looking for survival, they are hoping for a revival. They should have made sacrifices for survival. They could have given four seats to the SP in Madhya Pradesh (in the Assembly polls). Kamal Nath was so arrogant that he was not even ready for a discussion. So, there is no difficulty in working with the BJP.

You are an old socialist with strong ideological views. Don’t you think such U-turns have affected Nitish’s image?

Ram Manohar Lohia, Madhu Limaye, George Fernandes… They all have worked with the Jan Sangh and BJP. Basically we all are products of non-Congress politics. In non-Congress politics, BJP is the largest party. In 1967, the Communist Party was with the Jan Sangh in the UP government… They were together in Bihar and Madhya Pradesh. Yeh har daur ki politics hoti hai (This is the politics of every era).

But that era was different. The Congress was the largest pole then. Now the BJP is all powerful and the biggest pole. The Congress is now a weak force.

They (Congress) don’t want everyone to fight together. Nitish provided them a big platform. Take the case of Assam, where (Badruddin) Ajmal’s party has two MPs and the Congress does not want to compromise with him… There are 80% Muslims there. The Congress wants to finish regional parties. Ask the Shiv Sena and the NCP.. The Congress has one seat in Maharashtra and they are asking for 24.

So you didn’t have any option?

There is only one option. In today’s bipolar politics, if you have to survive and work… What is the other way than the BJP?

So has Nitish sensed the wind… which way the 2024 Lok Sabha electoral wind is blowing, especially after the Ram Temple opening?

We have worked with the Jan Sangh and seen the Atal-Advani era. It is not the same BJP. It is a much stronger party. They are holding booth-level meetings. Their Panna Pramukhs are working day and night. The Congress lacks a clear-cut leadership… The road for the Ram Mandir construction was cleared by the (Supreme) Court. But if the Mandir is being opened and you are invited, you should not have declined. You should have announced a date on which you would go. Their negative statement is also helping the BJP.

But Nitish also did not attend (the Ayodhya event).

We did not go but did not ridicule (the event). They gave a negative statement. They should have said that they will not participate in the pran prathista but will go to Ayodhya later. From opposing Modi… They have started opposing religious rituals. It will go against them in the election.